TUI EMMA GILLIES & SULIETI FIEME’A BURROWS

The mother daughter artist duo, age 41 and 70, both wearing Starving Artists Fund. Photographed at their exhibition at TAUTAI.

I’d be lying if I said it wasn't intimidating to write up an interview about two powerhouse women. I felt burdened with the fear of not doing them justice. Their incredible accolades were in the foreground of my mind before I met them, so was the depth of their work. They've exhibited and sold their works internationally, from The Royal Academy of Art in London to The National Gallery of Victoria Melbourne. In 2018, they received the Creative New Zealand Heritage Art Award. In 2020, Sulieti received an MNZM, a Queen’s honour award for her volunteering and services to Tongan art and education.

Yet when I met them in person, it was all eclipsed by their humility and warmth and their innate ability to make me, a stranger to them feel completely at home. Their profound vulnerability, the playful friction trademarked by mother-daughter relationships, ended up being just as admirable to me as their accomplishments.

I left them with the immediate urge to call my mother and grandmother.

______

On art and Tapa

For Sulieti, the art of Tapa or Ngatu is in the very DNA of being Tongan. “As a Tongan who grew up there, you can't get away from it. It’s a part of our everyday life. We walk on it, we use it as blankets, as clothing…” Ngatu can span anywhere between 50 to 100 feet and is integral to funerals, weddings, and coronations where it acts as a red carpet. “No celebration feels complete without tapa.”

The process of making ngatu is a true labour of love, “It’s hard work. From planting the mulberry plants, to harvest after two to three years…” It involves several painstaking stages, beating the tutu (inner bark of the mulberry plant) to flatten it out, glueing the strips together with natural substances like tapioca is just the start when it comes to making the base of the cloth itself. 

It is the essence of community. The men’s role is secondary and limited to planting the mulberry, making the dye, and cooking while the women take on the main tasks in groups of twelve or more at the koka’anga.

As many of the Pacific Islands make an effort to revive this art of tapa, Tui and Sulieti do their part through their role as artists, together.

Tui: “ Mum’s always been an amazing mother and it didn't feel any different starting to work together. It was more like, let’s get on with it, this needs to be done. It felt like we walked into it because we were supposed to.”

On cultural displacement

“Tui’s experience was one of duality, informed by a recurring term, palangi. Palangi is the term for a white person in Tongan and bears a similarity to the Hindi word Firangi, which has the same meaning. The conversation started to feel very relatable.”

Sulieti met her husband who was pakeha, in Tonga and travelled back to New Zealand with him. Reminisces about her initial attempts to be accepted by his family, who she eventually won over with two simple gestures of love - a warm hug and a home-cooked meal. 

Tui’s experience was one of duality, informed by a recurring term, palangi. Palangi is the term for a white person in Tongan and bears a similarity to the Hindi word Firangi, which has the same meaning. The conversation started to feel very relatable. 

Tui: I can't speak Tongan and always felt like that was a barrier. I rely on mum when I go to Falevai to speak her mother tongue and interact with people. When I went there by myself it was different. 

I would definitely advise any one of a younger generation to go out of your way to learn your language and more about your culture. You have every right to find your identity, who you are and where you came from. 

It took me until I was 20 or 21 to connect with my community, it wasn't until the week of my Aunty’s funeral that I realised I had been missing out on all this Tongan love. The genuine feeling of acceptance. I didn't feel accepted before that, in a palangi country where I was taller than everyone else. 

Go meet up with your aunties, make those connections if you can. Visit your place of birth and connect with your roots. Don't be scared. Of what they say or their judgement-

Sulieti laughs, to which Tui replies, “Especially the Tongans. Sorry, but it’s true.”

Sulieti confirms with another laugh and a nod.

On the joy of daily routines

For Sulieti, she enjoys “sleeping in the same bed as my granddaughter. Even at night, even if I forget, she wakes me up for a nighttime prayer. When she wakes up in the morning she gives me a cuddle- it is a little thing, not much but it's special.”

Tui begrudgingly says “I’m really sorry to say this mum, but she's been saying to me. “Mum, when am I going to have my own bed?”

Sulieti confirms, “She asked me last night when we went to bed. “Nana, maybe when I'm 14 or 13..” I said, “what? Are you going to move out and live somewhere else?” She said “No! I want to have my own bed!”

(A communal gasp over chocolate croissants puts our conversation on a brief pause. Thanks, team!)

Tui shares, “It's quite traditional in our culture for grandmother and granddaughter to share a bed. I like having my own bed, even when I was growing up. My highlight in the routine is that I completely adore my German Shepard Bella. She’s 3, high energy, 40 kilos, she's a beast! She’s got this beautiful energy about her that brings me a lot of joy. I give her a cuddle every day and that fills my cup up. There's something about her that feels like a kindred spirit. Sorry, mum- it's not one of the humans. I’ve very much about animals.”

On body image

Tui : I was around 14/15 when I went to a Maybelline event down in Greenlane and all the schools came in. There was a scout there that came up to me and said, “I like the way you look, here's my number. There's definitely face work out there for you.” I never called her back. I remember eating a pie and thinking I cannot eat this! I’d have to starve myself for this industry. My face is good enough but my body isn’t? It definitely sticks with you, especially at 15 years old. 

Now, I think about dressing for my age or whatever. I've gone into situations where I've had to talk in front of people and thinking what can I wear that doesn't show the necessary bits that I don't want showing? I’ve been quite insecure. Today, doing what we did was so empowering. 

In terms of the development of my style, I'm starting to wear the kie kie more if we have a presentation. It's my (Tongan) culture, it's a part of me, it's what my art is about, and it's where my inspiration has come from. 

Kiwis dress quite conservatively, aye? You must be frustrated here. I’m a typical frigging Kiwi girl when it comes to dressing sometimes and I don't want to be. At my age, I'm starting to be more open, I'm much better now than I was 10 years ago.

Sulieti: As soon as you come into the world, you have your own body shape. In the Islands, we are built big and people embrace our natural beauty. My husband used to tease me and say, “Oh my god, your legs are like tree trunks!” and I used to say, thank you, I have sexy legs. I never cared. Even when I was younger I had a tiny waist, a big bum, and big legs and was very proud of my body. We’re all different but we're all headed on the same road.

Tui jokes, “Yeah, we all die.” she gestures to the chocolate croissants and asks, “Do you want some more?” I nodded and stuffed my face with a second serving. 

Sulieti continues, “I’ve always like to dress nicely and I don't feel any different now. When I first came to NZ I would go to the shopping centre with the two babies and I would dress them up nicely in clothes that I made for them. People would quite often say to me that I always look nice when I come to the shop. That's when I realised that the people here notice you when you dress well. I couldn't speak much English then but I always said thank you. I don't really like wearing make-up. I do sometimes for shoots but otherwise, I like to go natural. I never coloured my hair either, I like my white hair.

Tui: I envy Mum’s style and how she feels comfortable in her own skin and owns it. I didn't use to wear much makeup either, but then I hit 40 and I said, you know what…

I ask Tui if she thinks there's a generational aspect to it, us being exposed to certain images of what a woman is supposed to look like, that maybe Sulieti wasn’t subjected to as much.

Tui: Yup, definitely. The magazines. I grew up in the 90s, that was crazy!

Me: The Kate Moss, cocaine skinny era

Tui: Wafer-thin. Yeah, that's what I saw and I grew up quite insecure.

On fulfillment and age

Tui: I love talks and workshops that involve younger kids. They're at that age where you wonder what life is all about and sometimes I can tell by their “Bye, Miss!” That they've been able to take something away from it. Maybe helped them connect to where they come from. Throw kids at me anyway! Just not my own.

I agree, “It’s always better when you can give them back.” I asked them about a time in their lives when they've felt most free and full of possibilities their reply was synonymous. 

Sulieti: I think it's right now, in my life.

Tui: That’s weird, it's the same for me.

(I couldn't help but let out a “Yassss!”)

Sulieti: When you're a child, you're learning and growing, same when you’re a teenager and keep going, step by step. You get to a point where you can look back at all the lessons and I'm very proud of myself. 

I grew up in the Islands with nothing. I grabbed everything that my parents and family could give me to keep going. Now I can sit back and wow, what a beautiful journey. There's been rough times, good times, bad times but you keep going and I’m so glad. Especially, my husband, I’m so thankful for him and since he came to Tonga and met me he gave me a lot of opportunities.

Tui: So interesting hearing you say that you were also restricted with Dad, aye Mum? Mum looked after him for years, he was 18 years older and they were very much in love with each other. He was very loving but he was a control freak. When he passed away in 2013, even my husband said, I feel like your mum has come into her own and she's blossomed since then. 

Sulieti: I felt like it was my duty to take care of him. I’m an old-fashioned one. Before we got married, I told my mother, I love him, I wasn't marrying for money. If you marry for money it's no good, if you marry for love it lasts forever. He provided for me and he gave me the most beautiful thing- my children.

Before he died, he said to me- I want you to find someone who will be good company-

Tui: You know what mum said? No!

Sulieti: I said I don't want to get married again.

Tui: Too many restrictions.

Sulieti: I said I’ve had enough of making cups of coffee and tea for you. It's time for me to have my freedom. So many people have offered to take me out but I've said no thank you, I’m very busy. 

Every year, I volunteer with the Tongan methodist church and we go back to Tonga for a big conference. I make the coffee, I love going over there to serve the people and make them happy. There's upto 3000 people there! My life right now is- (lets out the biggest happy sigh) I feel like I’m on top of the world.

Tui: There's so much gratitude coming from Mum, I think that's why she's so at peace. 

I was terrified of turning 40, a massive milestone. I felt like some type of wisdom came into me at 41- I noticed I started to change a little bit. I started becoming a little more wiser and accepting. That's when I started to feel more free. I feel like Mum and I are in that same stage, even though we are 30 years apart.

I think some of us are so obsessed with keeping our youth. Don't get me wrong, I’d love to look like I'm in my 20s but I wish we weren't like that. 

Sulieti: it's a big business too. Advertising for things to make people look younger. It makes me sad. 

Tui: Where did you come from??

“Falevai!” I answered for her.

Sulieti: I use a lot of coconut oil and in Falevai we add perfumed flowers like gardenias, mohokoi, leaves and it's so pure.

Tui: When I went back to Tonga by myself, I thought about bringing it back here and selling it, to help the village out. That's when I did see the whole….

Sulieti turns to me and playfully gestures to Tui, “The Palangi thing.”